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Mass Fabricator EU Value Increase is wrong

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I have no clue why this has been done and i can't see any logic behind it

The info that i have gathered thus far is that "Mr T" thought that it would be a good idea to INCREASE the amount of EU needed to produce a UU-Matter

It used to be 1,000,000 EU to make a UU-Matter..
Which with Normal Solar panels took ages and you would NEVER get 100% efficiency with just using normal solar panels.
You had to have a lot of HV solar arrays to even get close to max'ing the efficiency. HV solar arrays are expensive, possibly more expensive than the Mass Fab itself so a normal player would have to play either constantly (which they wouldn't) or just play for days and days and days to get anything close to what is needed to make UU-matter efficiently.

The above to a normal player (someone who plays the server a normal amount and doesn't play 24hours a day) is a reasonable way of getting UU-matter within a reasonable amount of time not to long where they will get bored and leave and not to short as to be over-powered and they will have everything the moment they make a Mass Fab.

But now, it is ridiculous 10,000,000 EU to make a UU-Matter
10 Times the length of time it takes to make 1 UU-Matter normally.


You need over 200 UU-matter to make a full set of Quantum Armor, for calculations i'll use just a flat 200.

For example, if it takes 3mins to make 1 UU-Matter with basic solar panels and no solar arrays which a normal person would have powering a Mass Fab it would take

3 x 200 = 600 - Number of Minutes for 200
600 / 60 = 10 - Number of Hours for 200

10 Hours of constant playing, next to your machine, in the same chunk, without being AFK (because of server restarts you can't AFK) otherwise machines will stop working.

10 Hours of constant normal playing is now increased by a multiplier of 10 so

10 x 10 = 100 - Number of Hours for 200

Fair enough that part way through you will increase the amount of power you generate and you will produce UU-matter quicker so i will change this to 50 hours to reflect that.

50 Hours to make a full set of Quantum Armour with a normal set up of power.
Who is going to play for a constant active 50 hours just to make a set of Quantum armor or anything to do with UU-Matter.... ?

There are only 24 Hours in a day

but if someone works or is schooled then that takes 8 hours away from a day then 8 hours for sleep. This Gives 8 Hours spare to play but no-one is going to play their constant spare time everyday because they have to get fed, washed, travel, social, entertainment ect ect. so i'll reduce the 8 hours spare to 3 hours spare.
(If you play more than 3 hours you are not classed as a normal player. That is borderline Hardcore playing and you'll get everything regardless, so you are irrelevant people)

3 hours per day to generate UU-matter.
50 hours to generate 200 UU-matter.

50 / 3 = 16 days CONSTANT PLAYING to get 200 UU-matter

What makes matters worse is that people who have already stockpiled UU-Matter will still have it, so if we REALLY want to have either UU-Matter or Quantum armor we are basically FORCED to buy it from them making them RICH.

I've kinda of lost my trail of thought while writing this because of having to TRY and have a discussion with Mr T in the server, which at every question, i got the feeling he was trying to avoid the matter or fob me off with a half explanation that lead to more questions which he didn't want to answer.

When i started to apply a slight more pressure to get an answer to my questions because what i was given was insufficient i got the below quote.

Quote from Mr T - "I don't want to discuss this with you"

All i was wanting is information on why the EU amount was changed, and the possibility to provide a counter-suggestion, because it seems that this was decided without the knowledge of the users on the forums or server and basically just only staff were involved it. (Confirmed by Mr T as just staff being involved)

Can someone explain to me the logic behind doing this?

-norab
Posted Aug 12, 13 · OP
Gecko1986 a
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I can respond to you 'why' we did it.

People abused the mass fab as a way to generate EMC. We want to discourage this abuse, therefor we made it require 10x more EU.

But don't shoot at MrT, I was the one who made the change.

If you have counter suggestions to fight against mass fab EMC farms, please state them.
Posted Aug 12, 13
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Counter suggestion: Return this to normal.
Just because some people abuse it doesnt mean everyone that didnt has to suffer, if they abused it and havent been banned then all you have done here is let them keep what they got and screw everyone else over.
Just ban the people who abused it, if you dont know who did it then obviously you have no evidence of anyone doing so making this change unfair and completely based on your own doing.

Greifers are still griefing and harassing people and you decide to focus your attention on this?
Ridiculous.
11vmrs1.png
Posted Aug 12, 13
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Counter Suggestion set it to 5 mil insted of 10
that way it is still harder to get and ppl wont hate it as an EMC farm but ppl that want quantum dont have to wait so long
Posted Aug 12, 13
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10x the amount it would usually take is really high amount compared to before. I would recommend atleast making it half that amount so at the most 5 mill as that is still alot.
OpO - Community Admin, Lakefront Mayor & Streamer
Posted Aug 12, 13
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I'll talk about it with Thowee. Thanks for your feedback.
Posted Aug 12, 13
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Apologies for what seems like shooting at Mr T. I was basically just telling what facts i had and what happened, i didn't mean for it so sound like i was getting at Mr T.

If the value of EU needed to produce a UU-matter is going to remain the same, or change to another value higher than the normal 1 million EU. Then all players who have stock piled UU-matter should have it removed from them for balance issues to a percent equal to the difference in new to old EU needed values. If they don't have stock piled UU-matter then the equivalent quantum armor should be removed from the player equal to the amount of UU-matter needed to produce the armor.
This would make it fairer as People who have been playing longer than others and have stock piles of UU-matter don't really care about this change as they don't need UU-matter anymore.

You say that you have changed the way Mass Fabs work to avoid miss-use of EMC, yet you openly allow a powerflower and red matter tools with a gem of eternal density. If i was to try to avoid the miss-use of EMC i would put a restriction on these items first, like you have with the powerflower needing votes to build it and rank. The main miss-use of EMC doesn't come from people who have everything, it come from people who have nothing.

I myself built and tested different ways to generate EMC on the server some would possibly be classed as a EMC farm (i didn't use them though) one is that you can produce cookies using less EMC than they give you in a condenser. I only thought of this because i had nothing, i didn't have any proper tools or any stored EMC or any IC, i was at the beginning point of the game where i'd want to cheat the system the most. But as they were banned i didn't farm EMC i did it all normally

But now that i have everything setup and red matter tools and a gem of eternal density i don't care about making a EMC farm as i don't need it, i can just Red Matter out a big chunk of rock and produce several million EMC in a few minutes.

That being said, the server already has a fine way of preventing miss-use of EMC. The Voting system.

My counter proposal would be to apply more votes or a higher rank needed to be able to place the Mass Fab and leave the amount of EU as it is (1 million)

The calculations i have shown in the first post don't include the preparation time. What i mean by this is the time it takes to be able to make the Mass Fab, making all the machines before hand such as filters, condensers, tubes, alloy furnaces, ect ect. Doing all of this easily adds on multiple days if not a week playing normally.

My opinion on how you have decided the amount of EU to increase by is that it is a biased decision. You can't ask just the people who already have everything to decide the fate of the people who have nothing, just as you can't ask only the people who have nothing the same question. You would need the opinion of both parties to fully decide what action to be taken, or the opinion of people who are currently in the relevant situation.

My thoughts would be to just leave it as it is at 1 million EU and if anything needs to be done, increase the amount of votes needed or rank needed to build/place the Mass Fab.

I don't know if i covered everything there as i just started typing and my fingers took me places i'd never been before. But that is my reply :d

norab
Posted Aug 12, 13 · OP
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We are going to lower it to 5 mil instead of 10 mil as 2 out of 3 suggested. This change will be done this evening.
Posted Aug 12, 13
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Surely if EU had a value 5 mill is alot of EU just to make one piece tho. And like super said everyone shouldn't be affected by this action because of a few people. So i hope that either you put the value of how much EU it takes to make one piece of UU back to default or the price of quite alot of things and UU matter alot higher.
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Posted Aug 12, 13
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We're going to keep it at 5 mil EU for now. If you still not agree in a couple of weeks, make a new post with new suggestions.
Posted Aug 13, 13
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